Europe mess

Europe. Full crisis.

Reading this article, quoting comments:

I’m not part of the political elite, yet I would prefer a European superstate over a 19th style provincial Europe with lots of small states constantly at each others throat, instead of working together. European integration wasn’t carried out in a very smart way so far, but the general idea behind it is still very attractive, even to many ordinary Europeans.

I definitely agree. I mean, it’s done. We have to do it. Otherwise, we can go back to our villages, bourgs and motherfucking Middle Age.

Can anybody tell me why, as Dutch citizens, my family has to pay EUR36,000 or more (and this is just into the current ESM) to finance Southern Europe, and on top af all without even being able to have any say in this? And then work until 67 and pay 52% income tax, to finance early retirement and large scale tax evasion in Italy and Greece? I’d prefer to just carry a few more currencies in my pocket when I go on holiday…

Dear Dutch friend, I totally get that but people are kind of assholes and in France for example, they don’t want to do what you already do. Those selfish bastards just don’t care. It’s like people love getting the good stuff from Europe, but not the obligations coming with it and what it takes to create a strong economy overall, benefiting everyone and their children. They play dumb.

Superstate sounds great, but it’ll either break-up or devolve into civil war within 20 years.

Look at the separatist movements in Belgium, Canada, the UK, or Italy over minor differences like language or a slightly different culture. Now imagine that in a country with 23 official languages and over 44 minority languages. You’d have to have a tyrant of the magnitude of Stalin just to hold it together.

Everyone from the Romans, to Charlemagne, to Napoleon have tried to build a European superstate but it has always failed.
The only possible way to achieve it would be through a forced homogenization of the languages and cultures like in America, and that would be almost impossible to do.

Very true. I’m French I’m over the language problem, I thought English would take over the world it did, it does and that’s the language we’re talking between Europeans too. End of the story. Countries are slow to understand and that’s why separatist movements will happen. Whatever.

To me as a German, Eurobonds would only be acceptable if accompanied by thorough structural reforms in the countries benefitting from those bonds, overseen by a European government of some sort ("Superstate"). Such a Superstate would have to give us, the Germans, a far greater say in the economic policy of other European countries than we already have, otherwise it would be a fluke (is that the right term?). But with the Greeks and Spanish already resenting the influence our government has on their lifes, can this work?
Anyways, a superstate would also be far more capable at holding casino-capitalism at bay. Which is probably why the Economist resents it. Which is probably a very good reason to actually take that route. Yay Superstate!

I get your point German friend and because you definitely have the numbers showing how Germany is doing good (after years of suffering), if we had a European government I’d totally leave you guys at the economic wheel. Problem is, that’s just me. As you know, French Spain and Italy are talking shit about you because you’re successful and that jokes are easy. It sucks. But we need you, some people love them some Germany as your exportation can tell you. Leave haters do their jobs, hating.

This is not a financial crisis. This is a political crisis, and the crisis is over our identity. Either we are Europeans first and Germans, Italians, Finns, Portuguese, French, Latvians, etc, second, or vice versa.

And that is why “Angela Merkel the German” shouldn’t be standing up in Brussels telling the Greeks to sort their house out. Instead, “Angela Merkel the European” should be standing up in Athens saying: “We still want you to be in the family and we’ll help you, but you need to accept your responsibilities.”

I always wanted to feel European first. That was the thing of my generation I thought. The generation that will be much less stupid than the previous one by putting our “local” identities second because national frictions don’t end well in Europe. I was wrong.

The mutualization of debt above 60% of GDP combined with a special tax to pay for it sounds good to me. However, France has to show serious signs of willingness to reform. I just can’t stand it that a country like France tries to walk away from the pain of austerity by making the Germans, Dutch and others foot the bill. If we’re going into the direction of more federalism, everybody should respect the rules. Those who don’t, must be forced out: no more euro and no mutualisation of debt for the sinners. France included, even if it is at the heart of Europe.

I apologize. You see France is in a weird position and I would say, a little poisoned by South Europe when it comes to manage stuff, corruption and all that. The Latin-not-too-much-the-morning-not-too-fast-the-afternoon side of France? Yes. We have unsolved structural problems and our new president is surely not going to address them.

Due to its geographic position, France had this very particular balance of enjoying life like South Europe lives it AND the disciplined mind of Northern Europe. We lost this balance because we got preoccupied with a fresh north African culture growing since 30 years in our suburbs but we should have been more preoccupied to define this French culture that still makes everybody dream around the world but which influence is also vanishing (when talking about Europe France is never in the discussion anymore).

It’s all fucked up now. It’s going to be hard but we need to make it happen, we’re Europe, main architect of what human civilization is today or we’re old ass retarded monkeys who can’t get real, let’s go son.